>>> COLUMBUS SAYS WE HAVE TO MASK UP.

♪ ♪ JOINING US "ON THE RECORD" THIS WEEK JESSE PALMER.

STATE HOUSE REPORTER FOR "CINCINNATI ENQUIRER."

DEREK CLAN, AND PRESIDENT OF -- OHIO.

THE LEGISLATURE PASSED A LAW BANNING GOVERNMENTS FROM IMPOSING HEALTH ORDERS.

THE CITY OF COLUMBUS IS ORDERING EVERYONE TO WEAR A FACE MASK IN PUBLIC PLACES.

IT APPLIES TO THOSE WHO HAVE GOTTEN THE COVID VACCINE AND THOSE WHO HAVE NOT.

WITH COVID CASES RISING IN HOSPITALS AND FILLING UP, COLUMBUS MAYOR DECIDED TO ACT SAYING THE MASK MANDATE IS NOT ABOUT SHUTTING DOWN OR GIVING UP.

>> REGARDLESS OF THE VIEW FROM POLITICAL PERSUASION, YOUR BELIEVES IN THE VACCINE, ALL OF US SHARE THE SAME THREE PRINCIPLES.

KEEP OUR ECONOMY OPEN, OUR SCHOOLS OPEN, AND LET OUR HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONALS DO THEIR JOBS.

>> THE SPREAD -- THE CDC SAID EVERY COUNTY IN OHIO HAS A HIGH RATE OF COVID SPREAD.

OHIO SEEING ABOUT 6,000 NEW CASES A DAY.

HOSPITALIZATION RATES ARE UP AND ON AVERAGE 18 OHIOIANS DIE EACH DAY FROM COVID-19.

JESSE, STATE LAW SEEMS PRETTY CLEAR.

THE HEALTH ORDERS BY THE GOVERNMENTS BUT COLUMBUS WENT AROUND IT.

HOW DID THEY DO IT?

?

>> THE LEGISLATURE ABOUT FOCUSSED ON WHAT WOULD HELP AND SO THE CITY IS TRYING TO GO AROUND THAT BY DOING IT.

I THINK YOU'LL SEE IT GO TO A SITUATION AND WE'LL TRY TO FIGURE IT OUT.

PREVENT THE CITIES FROM PUTTING IN THE REQUIREMENTS BUT I THINK THE MAYOR IS GOING ABOUT IT IN A UNIQUE WAY.

>> YEAH.

ODDLY ENOUGH IN COLUMBUS IT'S NOT THE POLICE OFFICERS ENFORCING IT BUT THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT FORCING ON IT BUT THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT WILL PLAY A ROLE AND JOINED COLUMBUS IN ISSUING OF MASK MANDATES.

THERE'S A GOOD IDEA, YOU THINK, THE ISSUE OF THE MASK MANDATE?

>> I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A CHOICE, MIKE.

COOL VID -- COVID RATES HAVE BEEN GOING UP STEADILY SINCE THE SUMMER.

NOW WE'RE IN A SITUATION WHERE WE HAVE TO REVERT BACK TO MASKS.

THERE'S A VACCINE FOR COVID-19.

PEOPLE THAT HAVE CHOSEN NOT TO TAKE THE VACCINE HAS PUT EVERY OTHER PERSON THAT HAS CHOSE TON TAKE THE VACCINE, BUSINESSES, SCHOOLS ALIKE, AND IN JEOPARDY AND AT RISK.

SO WHAT ELSE ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO?

>> IS THIS GOOD OR BAD FOR BUSINESSES?

>> I ARGUE THE GOOD FOR BUSINESSES BECAUSE -- YOU HAVE TO WEAR A MASK BECAUSE THE MAYOR SAID SO BUT BAD FOR BUSINESSES AND THEY HAVE TO -- OF THE MASK MANDATE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> AND THE REMEDIES SPLITTING HAIRS BECAUSE ON ONE HAND YOU'RE RIGHT.

BUSINESSES ARE SAYING, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST THE PRESSURE IS OFF ME AND ALL I NEED TO NOW DO IS REQUIRE PEOPLE TO WEAR THEIR MASK BUT THERE ARE SUBSTANTIAL NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE REFUSING TO DO IT.

THAT PUTS THE PRESSURE RIGHT BACK ON ONE OF THE BUSINESSES TO BE IN THE ROLE OF HAVING TO ENFORCE IT.

AND SO I DON'T THINK IT MAKES THE ISSUE GO AWAY.

I THINK IT UNDERSCORES JUST HOW DEEPLY DIVIDED WE ARE ON THESE ISSUES THAT ARE REALLY TRYING TO PROTECT THE PUBLIC HEALTH.

>> MORE ON THE RISE IN COLUMBUS.

37% INCREASE IN COVID CASES IN THE PAST WEEK, IT'S THE REASON WHY THE MAYOR ISSUED THE MASK MANDATE.

SO THE GOVERNOR WAS ON TV TWICE A WEEK LAST SPRING, WHAT IS GOING ON THERE?

>> THE GOVERNOR HAS GOT TON A POINT WHERE HE HAS RECOMMENDING PEOPLE KIND OF DO THE RIGHT THING WEAR MASKS IF THEY'RE NOT VACCINATED AND -- EFFECTIVE ENS COVID-19.

FOR THAT IS WITH HIS APPROACH.

I THINK THAT'S IN PART BECAUSE THERE'S A FRUSTRATION AND JUST DESIRE TO BE DONE.

IN THIS INSTANCE I THINK HE MADE THE -- THAT, YOU KNOW, CONTINUING TO PROCEED DOWN WHERE IT IS IN CONSTANT ANGST WITH THE LEGISLATURE AND OTHERS IT'S REALLY NOW A DISTRACTIONS.

STILL ALONG 50% VACCINATED.

OUR CASES ARE GOING UP.

WE'RE 38 INth COUNTRY, I THINK, AS FAR AS VACCINES GO.

THE MESSAGE WEAR A MASK, GET VACCINATED, PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

BUT BEST TREADING WATER ON VACCINATIONS AND MASK WEARING.

>> AND WOO TALK ABOUT HAVING A VACCINATION MANDATE.

IT MAY BE A DIFFERENT ISSUE WHETHER OR NOT THE GOVERNMENT HAS THE AUTHORITY TO DO IT.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO CHOOSE NOT TO FOLLOW IT.

>> AND THE PRESIDENT THIS WEEK 100 PEOPLE IN THERE TO GET THE EMPLOYEES VACCINATED.

IS IT OKAY -- GET TESTED AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK.

THAT'S A PRETTY BOLD STAMP.

YOU HAVE TO WAIT -- TO GET AHMED SIN.

>> NOT AT ALL.

THIS COUNTRY AFFORD A SHUT DOWN.

WE HAD A SHUT DOWN LAST YEAR BECAUSE COVID WAS MEAN TO EVERYONE.

WEAPON DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT.

WE CAN'T EVEN -- FOR OUR RESTAURANTS.

THE HOTEL INDUSTRY LOST 50% OF THEIR WORK FORCE.

SO WE CAN'T AFFORD ANOTHER SHUT DOWN.

HE HAS TAKEN A RESPONSIBLE ROLE FOR EVERYONE THAT HAS GOTTEN VACCINATED AND MOST OF THEM HAVE NOT GOTTEN VACCINATED PUT EVERYONE ET.

CETERA AND THIS COUNTRY AT RISK.

>> A QUESTION ON THE TOPIC AND PROVIDE WITH THE GOVERNOR COMMENTED TODAY ABOUT THE BIDEN VACCINE MANDATE.

HE SAID IT WAS A MISTAKE.

SOMEWHAT OPPOSED TO THE MANDATE AND THE VACCINE MANDATE?

AND GOTTEN BETTER AND IT'LL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THEY CONTINUE WITH THIS DEFINITION.

THE GOVERNOR CONTINUING TO RIDE THAT FENCE TO STAY IN A CONSERVATIVE SIDE BUT NOT GO TOO FAR WITH THE OTHER GOVERNORS LIKE RON DeSANTIS HAS GON THIS IS THE DEADLINE TO APPROVE THE REPUBLICAN LEADERS AT THE STATE HOUSE TO PRESENT THE DRAFT AND THE STATES HOUSE AND STATE SENATE LEGISLATIVE.

ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT THEY FAVOR THE GOP THEY SAID THE MAPS SHOW THE REPUBLICANS WOULD HOLD ON TO THE SUPER MAJORITY IN BOTH CHAMBERS.

THAT'S ROUGHLY TWO-THIRDS OF THE SEATS IN EACH CHAMBER.

EVEN THOUGH REPUBLICANS DO NOT HOLD THE SAME ADVANTAGE AMONG ACTUAL VOTERS.

IN THE CONSTITUTION THERE WAS APPROVED TO REFORM THE PROCESS A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, THAT THE MAPS HAD TO REFLECT THE BASIC POLITICAL MAKE UP OF THE STATE AND IT'S -- RIGHT NOW.

IS THE MAP CONSTITUTIONAL, YOU THINK?

>> AT THE VERY BEGINNING IN THE PROCESS PERHAPS THE PROCESS AND SO YOU KNOW THE PARTIES THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, TAKING THEIR POSTURE AND IT'S TOO SOON TO TELL.

AND, YOU KNOW, AND ON THE COMMISSION ITSELF ARE THE ONES WHO, YOU KNOW, HAVE RESENTED INTEREST IN THE INDIVIDUAL DISTRICT.

I THINK IT'S TOO SOON TO BE TALKING ABOUT CONSTITUTIONALITY BECAUSE IT'S JUST THE VERY BEGINNING.

>> QUITE DRAFT MAP AND GOT, YOU KNOW, SIX DAYS TO FIGURE IT OUT AND CHANGE IT.

HOW MUCH DOES IT HAVE TO CHANGE FOR DEMOCRATS ON THE COMMISSION TO AGREE TO IT?

>> WELL, THE DRAFT MAP BUT IT'S A VERY POORLY GONE DRAFT MAP.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE MAP THAT THE REPUBLICANS PUT OUT THAT HAS THEM HOLDING 67 SEATS WITH 99 SEATS AND THEN 25 SEATS OR 33 SEATS IN THE SENATE, IT'S NOT VERY FAIR.

IT DOESN'T HAVE GOOD REPRESENTATION WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE MAP.

FURTHER MORE, IF YOU WANT A FAIR AMOUNT AND YOU CAN HAVE A MAP WHERE DEMOCRATS COULD HAVE AT LEAST 44 -- THEY ARE 14 SEATS IN THE SENATE.

YOU TELL ME.

AND HAS SAID PREVIOUSLY WE'RE AT THE BEGIN OF THE PROCESS THAT HAS A DRAFT MAP.

THERE WILL BE HEROISM IN THE STATE AND THEN THE COMMISSIONER WILL CONVENE NEXT WEEK ON THE MAP AND I KNOW THAT THE STAFFS OF THE COMMISSION ARE WORKING HAZARD THIS WEEKEND TO TRY TO SEE IF THEY CAN MAKE SOME CHANGES TO THE MAP THAT THE GOP PUT OUT THIS WEEK.

>> YEAH.

DO YOU KNOW IF DEMOCRATS ARE WORKING WITH REPUBLICANS IN THE SAME ROOM?

>> I DON'T KNOW THEY'RE WORKING IN THE SAME ROOM.

THAT'S AT THE HEARING.

THAT'S WHAT THE COMMISSION MADE EVERYONE BELIEVE THEY WERE GOING TO TRY TO COME TOGETHER AND WORK ON THE MAPS BUT TO BE HONEST, PROBABLY WASN'T IN TEAR OWN SILOS AND EXCHANGES OF E-MAILS.

>> AND WHAT IS NEXT?

THERE ARE HEARINGS COMING UP.

FIRST ONE IS SUNDAY, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND.

WHAT ARE THE CHANCES THE MAP CHANGES QUITE A BIT FROM WHAT WE SAW UNVEILED THIS WEEK?

>> WELL, FOR THE VESTED INTEREST FOR THERE TO BE A COMPRISE ON THIS.

IF THEY APPROVE THE MAP THEN IT LASTS FOR 10 YEARS BUT IF THEY CAN'T GET THE DEMOCRATS ON BOARD, IT'LL LAST FOR FOUR YEARS.

THAT'S A PROBLEM BECAUSE REPRESENTATIVES -- WHICH DISTRICTS THEY'RE RUNNING IN.

IT GETS TO BE, YOU KNOW, A LOT UP IN THE AIR IF YOU CAN'T GET TO THAT COMPRISE.

I THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHETHER IT'S PROPORTIONATE TO THE STATEWIDE AVERAGE AND WHETHER IT'S A REQUIREMENT THEY WILL GET IT AND YOU HAVE A CONSTITUTION WHERE THE SUGGESTION AS SOME OF THE REPUBLICAN LEADERS ARE SUGGESTING.

>> AND WILL ASK YOU AGAIN.

IS IT BETTER FOR THE STATE NATE TO HAVE THE SECURE SEAT FOR FOUR YEARS OR A LESS SECURE SEAT FOR 10 YEARS?

?

>> LOOK.

I DON'T KNOW.

BASED ON THE DISTRICT I CAME FROM AND, YOU KNOW, I JUST THINK THAT PEOPLE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS THINK THE SAME POLITICAL CALCULATION APPLIES TO THE DEMOCRATS.

THEY LESS CONCERNED OF THE ENVIRONMENT OR WHATEVER THE TEN YEARS.

IF THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE IT IN THE HAND AND THAT'S WHERE THE PRESSURE IS GOING TO BE.

THE PRESSURE IS GOING TO BE WANT THE SECURITY.

THAT'S A NATIONAL INSTINCT.

>> YEAH.

THESE MAPS DID NOT TAKE INTO EFFECT THE RACIAL ISSUES.

THE RACIAL POPULATIONS AND MINORITY DISTRICTS AND MINORITY PRESENTATION.

>> I'M NOT SURE WHERE THEY SAID THAT IN A PUBLIC SETTING AND OFFER -- I'M HOPING THEY'LL GET TO A POINT OF WHAT THEY ARE CONSIDERING RACIAL DATA TO THIS SO MINORITY OPPORTUNITY DISTRICTS ARE ARMED WITHIN.

BY THE REPUBLICANS.

>> NEXT TOPIC THE -- ACCEPTED THE REQUEST TO REVIEW THE COLUMBUS DIVISION AND GET THE REQUEST IN APRIL AFTER TWO POLICE SHOOTINGS ON BLACK RESIDENTS BY WHITE OFFICES AND FEDERAL JUDGE WAS CRITICAL OF POLICE PRACTICES DURING LAST YEAR'S RACIAL JUSTICE PROTEST AND THE LOOPERS WELCOMES THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT'S INVOLVEMENT.

>> THIS IS NOT SOMETHING WE CAN DO ALONE.

WE HAVE TO BE OPEN FOR THE POSSIBILITY THAT WE DON'T HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS.

WE HAVE TO BE READY TO ACCEPT THE FEEDBACK AND OUR RESIDENTS.

THIS IS HOW WE PUT TOGETHER THE BEST SYSTEM WE CAN.

AND THEY HAVE THE PRIVATE CONSULTANT LOOK AT IT.

THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS GOING TO COME IN WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, BLINDERS ON.

THEY'LL BE LOOKING AT PATTERNS AND POLICIES OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

THEY'LL BE LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, THE RECENT SHOOTINGS AND WHAT HAS LEAD TO THAT.

THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WILL HAVE THE RESOURCES TO DO THE PROPER TYPE OF EVALUATION OF THE DEPARTMENT.

HOW THEY DID BE IMPROVED UPON IN THE FUTURE.

>> YEAH.

SOME OF THE POLICE USE OF FORCE.

THEY DID KNOW WHAT NEXT STEPS THEY NEED TO TAKE IN ORDER TO MAKE IT A BETTER DEPARTMENT FOR THE CITY.

>> AND SPEAKING BROADLY WHAT DOES IT DO TO AN AGENCY WHEN OUTSIDE FOLKS COME IN AND REVIEW IT AFTER THE AGENCY HAS HAD TROUBLE?

DOES IT HELP?

OR DOES IT HELP KEEP IT FROM BEING REFORMED?

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS?

>> I THINK WHAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT THIS IS YOU HAVE THE MAYOR AND THE POLICE CHIEF UNITED BEHIND A COMMON PURPOSE.

WANTING TO BRING FORWARD TRANSPARENCY AND CONVERSATION WITH THE COMMUNITY AND TO ENSURE POLICING MOVING FORWARD.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT DEPENDS ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

GIVE COLUMBUS CIRCUMSTANCES AT LEAST UNIFIED AT THE FRONT END OF THE PROCESS I THINK TO SET THE STAGE FOR ALL PARTIES TO BE FEELING -- FOR THE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR COUNCIL AND MOVING FORWARD.

I THINK THAT'S A PLUS FOR COLUMBUS.

>> YEAH.

AND THE POLICE UNION.

AND TRYING TO FIND SOLUTIONS.

AND AGAINST ABORTION RIGHTS AND KEEPING A CLOSE EYE ON STATES WHICH REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP AND OFFER ANYTHING THE STATES DO IN THE SPOT -- IN RESPONSE TO TEXAS'S ABORTION LAW.

THE TEXAS LAW BANS MOST ABORTIONS AFTER SIX WEEK AND CIVIL SUITS AND ALLOW THE GOVERNMENT TO ENFORCE THEM.

THE SUPREME COURT TO -- REFUSED TO PUT A HOLD ON THE TEXAS LAW.

>> THEY'RE TAKING A LOOK AT IT BECAUSE OF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT -- AND ON FEDERAL COURT.

SO THE LEGISLATION NOT WITHOUT ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM.

BUT I ALSO THINK IT'S MORE ON THE U.S. SUPREME COURT, IN THIS CASE, OUT OF MISSISSIPPI WHICH COULD DETERMINE LIEBLTD FOR A LOT OF DIFFERENT STATES.

I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF THEY WAIT FOR THAT JUDICIAL DECISION, AS WELL.

>> IS THAT A WISE MOVE?

MOST SOERVES THINK IT'S THE KEY CASE IN THE NEXT YEAR OR SO TO PERHAPS SETTLE THIS OR DO SOMETHING OF SUBSTANCE TO THE ROE V. WADE IN ABORTION IN AMERICA.

>> FOR SURE.

AND FOR THOSE TO HAVE BEEN LONG TIME ADVOCATES FOR OVERTURNING ROE, I THINK KEEPING YOUR EYE ON THE PRIZE IS REALLY SMART STRATEGY.

AND ADVANCING LEGISLATION TO CHALLENGE THE ISSUES.

AND SO IT'S INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THAT PLAYS OUT BUT CERTAINLY THE BIG CASE IS THE ONE IN MISSISSIPPI.

>> SUPPORTERS TO -- EVEN TRAVELIALIZED WHERE IT'S OVERTURNED AND AUTOMATICALLY ABORTION IS BANNED IN OHIO.

>> YEAH.

YOU SAID A BUNCH OF LAWS POP UP AROUND THE COUNTRY BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN NO LAW TO OVERTURN ROE V. WADE.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK EVERYONE IS JUST TAKING -- TRYING TO SEE WHAT THE COURT CASE IS GOING TO DO AND FORM A STRATEGY FROM THERE.

>> DO YOU BELIEVE THEY HAD FIGHTS OVER -- CASINOS -- THERE IS ANY TALK TO GET READY FOR THE COURT TO DECIDE WHAT TO DO?

>> YEAH.

I HAVEN'T HEARD OF ANYONE GOING TO THE BALLOT YET.

THERE'S A LOT OF TOPICS THAT ARE MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION.

INCLUDING MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION.

NOT ABORTION RIGHTS ISSUES.

>> THE ISSUE IF THE SUPREME COURT OVERTURNS ROE.

-- >> I DON'T KNOW.

I ACTUALLY THINK THAT KEEPING OUR EYE ON THIS MISSISSIPPI CASE COULD BE A REAL GAME-CHANGER.

AND FOR HAVE BEEN WORKING TO CHALLENGE THE PRECEDENT AND STRIKE THE LIABILITY, I THINK THAT -- THEY WAITED A LONG TIME TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

>> YEAH.

>> AND SO WHETHER OR NOT THE INCENTIVE AROUND GOING TO THE -- DIRECTLY.

I THINK REMAINS TO BE SEEN.

>> ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT.

AND NOW TO MAKE IT QUICK.

OFF THE RECORD COMMENT TIME.

>> ABOUT TO SPEND $450 BILLION IN CHILD CARE AND PRESCHOOL COUPLED WITH THE FUNDS THAT GONE DIRECTLY TO THE STATE.

THE STATE HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY ADDRESS THE CHILD CARE CHALLENGES TO GET PEOPLE BACK TO THEIR SUPPORT FAMILIES.

>> QUICK COMMENT?

>> AND FOR THE 20th ANNIVERSARY OF 9/11 TO THE VICTIMS AND THEIR FAMILIES.

>> YEAH.

THE FLAGS WE SEE AT THE STATE HOUSE, THE THOUSANDS OF FLAGS, 2,000 FLAGS IS AMAZING.

YOUR FINAL THOUGHT?

>> ISSUED A STATEMENT AND DESIGNED RESPONSIBILITY FOR AT LEAST WE DON'T HAVE THAT PROBLEM.

>> YES.

THEY HAVE THE PROBLEM.

SO THANK YOU FOR THAT.

THAT'S "ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

CHECK US OUT ONLINE.

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